Below is the second part of the February, 1913, English language interview given by Jigoro Kano to the New York based periodical “The Oriental Review”. This second part is the actual interview and we can literally read Jigaro kano, “in his own words” because of his fluency in English. His responses are obviously geared to lay people unfamiliar with Asian martial arts but are very interesting all the same. Once again I have kept the spelling and punctuation the same although I did correct at least one spelling mistake.
“WHAT IS JUDO?”
“In an interview with Professor Kano while he was in New York, many questions were asked him by a representative of the “REVIEW” concerning the essential principles of the jujutsu of his own school, and also as to the way in which the art is studied by foreigners in Japan and Europe. Pressed as he was for time, Mr. Kano was kind enough to give such answers that even the Western people who happen not to know anything about jujutsu can gather a pretty good idea of this unique athletic art of Japan from them.”
“From my own observations in Europe,” said Professor Kano, “it seems to me that the real essence of spirit of jujutsu is not, so far, fully understood in Western countries. I am not, however, surprised at this fact, for the task of endeavoring to make Western people understand what jujutsu really is in any satisfactory manner requires a man of several qualifications. He must certainly possess three distinctive qualifications-(I) a thorough understanding of the practical side of the art, (2) a full grasp of its theory, (3) a competent knowledge of a foreign language. Now I don’t think I at present know anyone who can satisfy these three qualifications. For instance, some may satisfy the first two qualifications, but their knowledge of a foreign language is not sufficient to impart their ideas to foreigners, and others may be well qualified in the last two points, but they lack in the practical side of the art. Such being the case, it is really difficult to find a competent teacher for foreigners. It may be said, therefore, that, primarily owing to the lack of competent teachers, western people do not, so far, understand what jujutsu really is.
“If circumstances permitted, I would be glad to give lectures to foreigners with an exhibition of the practical side of the art. I am not in a position to do so now. If I were asked to express the principles of jujutsu in a single sentence, I would say that it is an art which makes use of both the mind and body to the best possible advantage. It must be considered from three different points-(I) mental and moral training, (2) physical training, and (3) self-protection. Before going any further, let me tell you about the difference between jujutsu and judo. I have used the term ‘jujutsu’ till now, simply because the term is more familiar to western people than the word ‘judo’. But I should have used the word ‘judo’, for what I really mean is judo, not jujutsu. Now judo is an evolved form of jujutsu. Literally translated, jujutsu means the ‘gentle trick,’ and judo, the ‘gentle way’. The principle difference between jujutsu and judo is that in the former case greater importance was attached to the fighting side of the art, while in the later form its fighting side does not play so important a part as in the other. The use of such a term as the ‘gentle trick’ or the ‘gentle way’ indicates the nature of the art; that is to say, it is not merely built upon the brutal force of the human race. There is a saying in Japan-‘the gentle can easily get the upper hand of the strong.’ In a word, a mere appeal to the sheer physical force does not cover the whole field of judo.
“Much opposition was raised in Japan when I first began to spread the practice of judo. The contention of my opponents was that the principle objects of jujutsu were fighting and self-defense, and that, therefore, it had no ‘raison d’etre’ for the modern civilized state of society in which peace and order reigned. But they had a misconception of the judo of my own school. Of course, such jujutsu which was established in conformity with the old state of society may not suit the society in which we now live, but its theory can be so evolved as to be fit for the requirements of the most highly developed states of modern society. It was thus that I began to establish my own school out of the old forms of jujutsu, and I employ the term ‘judo’, as I have said before, in order to distinguish it from the jujutsu of the old style.
I think I have told you about the difference between judo and Jujutsu. Well, I am glad to say that the judo of my own school is now practiced in almost all public schools of Japan. It must not be supposed, however, that every detail of my school has been brought forth to perfection. No, far from that. As a matter of fact, I am still in the course of study on some points or others. But is there anything in this world which cannot be improved?
“As for the comparison between boxing and judo-well, boxing is a part of our judo. In other words, our judo contains in some measure those elements of boxing which I may call the fighting side. The only difference is that in boxing the fighting side occupies the whole field, while in judo it constitutes only one side. In judo, we do not attach too much importance to fighting.
JUDO IN EUROPE
“During my recent visit to Europe I saw some gymnasiums for judo established by foreigners. I was naturally pleased to see European people getting interested in this art of Japan and I appreciate the work of those gymnasiums, but I must say this, that it is doubtful whether the true spirit of judo is being interpreted by them in the right way. Of course, I do not mean to say that their way is entirely wrong. What I really mean is that much is still left to be desired.
“England is at the head, so far as the study of judo is concerned. Next comes Germany, and then France. While in London, I received a visit from the principle of a judo gymnasium, and saw the institution myself. In Germany and in France, I also visited some judo gymnasiums. When in Hungary, I heard that there was a gymnasium, but I did not see it. As for America, there are some gymnasiums, generally established by Japanese in the west, but, so far I haven’t seen any in the East. In fact, I have not yet been long in New York.
FOREIGN STUDENTS IN JAPAN.
“Who was the first foreigner to study judo at my gymnasium in Tokio? Well, so far as I can recollect now, I think the late Mr. Eastlake-professor of English, you know-was the first foreigner who asked me to teach him judo. It was, I think, in 1885. Then a retired British Major, named Hughes, came to study at my gymnasium. As for their work, they studied the principles rather than the practical side of the art.
“At present, there are three foreign students in my institution who come regularly to practice. They are Mr. Weed, an English gentleman, Mr. Harrison, of the Japan Advertiser, and Mr. Steers, an English gentleman. Perhaps Mr. Steers is the most earnest foreign student I ever had. What a keen interest he takes in judo may be gathered from this story: it seems he had started to study judo at home, but he soon found that he could not obtain such knowledge of the art as he wanted in his own country. Then he decided to go to Japan in order to satisfy his desire for the study. To be entirely free to apply himself, he had sold his house and disposed of all his family affairs, and then he started for the country where the subject of his study lay. So he came to Japan for the sole purpose of studying judo. In consideration of his adventure and sincerity, I have been conducting his training myself. When I left Japan for my present European trip last summer, I entrusted his training to one of my best assistant teachers.
“You ask me what advantages and disadvantages foreigners have in studying judo as compared with Japanese. Generally speaking, foreigners are stronger than Japanese in the upper part of the body, but they are weak in the lower part of the body, especially the strength of their waist is poor. As may be expected from the fine physique of western people, their sheer physical force is by far superior to that of Japanese.
One thing which I notice in almost all foreign students is that they seem to have taken up their study and practice of judo rather out of curiosity, without any conviction. On the other hand, all Japanese students who come to me are sincere in their work. We must admit, however, that the real merits of judo, as I have mentioned before, are not yet fully know to western people, and that those who try to study it are not moved by any considerable amount of conviction. I hope the time will come when foreigners shall appreciate the true merits of our judo and study and practice it with sincerity.
JAPAN AT THE OLYMPIC GAMES.
“The result of the Japanese representation at the Olympic games held at Stockholm last summer was not very brilliant, as you all know, but, according to your request, I shall give my own views. First of all, it must be understood that what are called the Olympic games are not practiced in Japan, or perhaps I has better say, they are not practiced in the way in which they are done in Europe and America. Another thing which must be taken into consideration is that they Olympic games are conducted on different principles from those prevailing in our country.
Take the case of swimming. From olden times swimming has been much practiced in Japan, with the result that great achievement has been made in this line of sport. But Japanese representatives cannot show their full prowess at the Olympic games, for they must swim on entirely different principles from those to which they are accustomed. As to the question whether there is any chance for Japan to hold her own at the Olympic games, I may answer that in certain lines she can ‘cross swords’ with other nations, provided that the principles which do not handicap Japanese representatives are adopted. Japan has, it seems to me, a very fair chance in the pole jump, for instance.
“The principle reason which induced Japan to seek representation at the Olympic games at Stockholm was that the participation in an international scheme might help to bring the East and West to a closer relationship. Of course, we had in mind that the participation in international games would give an impetus to the athletic development of our nation. It is, our idea (at least it is my personal view) that we must have in view the general physical development of the whole nation rather than the creation of a selected number of good athletes.”
So ends a very interesting and informative glimpse into the past of Jiu-jitsu and Judo. Kano, in his very own words and in fluent English gives us a very different picture I think, than of judo today. Here are some interesting things I wanted to point out.
Notice that for the first part of the interview Kano himself refers to his system or “art” as “jujutsu” and only later corrects himself. He does this, as he explains, simply because the word is more familiar to westerners. I hope the fact that Kano himself used the terms interchangeably will finely put to rest the rather tiresome debate about why some instructors called what they did “jiu-jitsu”.
Apparently, every one including Kano called it Jiu-jitsu when in the west and this should not cause much confusion since not only was it a well-known term, but the older feudal age jiu-jitsu never really existed in the western world so there was little point trying to force a distinction that was really only that relevant in Japan. Furthermore, Kano states succinctly that “judo is an evolved form of jujutsu”. By the time the term “judo” was better known in the west it was already taking on a more limited meaning, being viewed as the more limited throwing aspect of jiu-jitsu. This was certainly the case in Brazil as is clearly outlined in “Coque”.
Furthermore, Even outside of Brazil, the term “judo” was either interchangeable with Jiu-jitsu in the early days or came to be associated with the sportive version of judo. Hence, the less evolved version of judo (for anything other than sport and physical fitness) was what people in the west understood it to be by the time the term was wide spread. This made for a convenient and easy distinction between jiu-jitsu for sport and jiu-jitsu for self-defense and fighting. But, we must not forget that the “Jiu-jitsu” introduced into the west was almost exclusively the modern “Kano jiu-jitsu” of which Brazilian Jiu-jitsu clearly derives from.
Did the West ever learn this true spirit of judo? That is a very interesting question, since he never goes into details about what it is precisely. Was it some aspect of Japanese culture that can never really be translated or was it just part of his exacting standards and idealism of mutual aid and mutual benefit? If it is the later, I wonder how many people inside or out of Japan ever really internalized these philosophies. That alone is certainly worthy of more exploration.
Kano also states clearly that there is a striking component to his judo and that is something sport Brazilian Jiu-jitsu people need to be reminded off and not to be allowed to define Brazilian Jiu-jitsu by a set of increasingly silly sport rules. This has already happened once to kano’s ultimate self-defense system and as I have written about else where, we need to band together and create alternatives if we are going to prevent the complete sportification of Brazilian Jiu-jitsu.
What is even more interesting and important to point out, is that Kano never mentions his judo as a sport in any context what so ever, even though part of the interview was discussing Japan and the Olympic games. We see from the context of the discussion that Japan had just participated in its first Olympic Games and had not done very well. Kano points out that this will change as Japan gets used to the rules and conventions of these games(what he calls the “principles”) and points out that Japan should do well in “Pole jumping”, but never ever says or implies anything along the lines that Japan will have an advantage when our sport of judo is included in the Olympics. Clearly this is the farthest thing from his mind because there is absolutely no reference to judo as a sport.
I found it refreshing to hear that even by 1913, more than 30 years after founding his own school, his judo was still a work in progress. This desire to never stop improving and developing is really what distinguishes the original Judo and in turn Brazilian Jiu-jitsu from classical Jiu-jitsu and athletically based sports. What I got from Kano’s statements is that self-improvement and improvement of your Jiu-jitsu is a lifelong process.
Finely and perhaps most importantly, is that kano thinks sports should be for every one’s benefit and not just for selected athletes. It is not hard to extrapolate that this is exactly how he thought about his beloved judo as well. Compare this idea to his own three aspects of Judo that he outlines. Certainly everyone needs “physical training” or fitness, our society more and more needs mental and “moral” training and self-defense is the highest expression of these ideas because life is the most precious thing that exists. Most of this is a far cry from the strange and artificial sports that both Judo and Brazilian Jiu-jitsu have contorted themselves into against the direct admonishments of their founders. Consider this post a little like Jigaro Kano traveling back through time to warn us once again about what Jiu-jitsu/judo should be and what we are losing.